We all have different definitions of what “success” looks like for our writing, and before we talk more about how to cultivate success in our writing, it’s important that we talk about what success means to us.
Which is why I invited one of my mentors, Keith Jennings, to share about his own wrestling with success.
Listen to the interview (22:58)
[audio:https://s3.amazonaws.com/scc_files/Keith+Jennings.mp3](right-click and select “Save Link As…”)
About the Interview
Keith Jennings is a poet, ghostwriter, and editorial director of a major medical corporation. He is also the creator of Root Notes, a weekly newsletter about re-thinking creativity. I highly recommend subscribing.
In this interview, Keith and I talk about:
- How to get what you really want out of your writing
- Whether you have to write full-time to be successful
- How to impact the world with your writing
- Ways to balance a day job and writing
- How to satisfy the tension between passion and obligation
After listening to the interview, what do you think success looks like for you? Share your answer in the comments section below.
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I liked what Keith said about having the freedom to choose what I write and how I write it. I think I’d even like to add in when I write it–having the flexibility to arrange my schedule around my family instead of my pleasure around my deadlines.
I think that there are many forms and stages of success. Finding more discipline to accomplish more writing, even without an outside challenge/deadline would be one form of success, getting more items published would be another form of success. Getting paid for publication would be still another form of success, and of course should I ever be able to receive a steady income from writing that would definitely be a mark of some success.
The greatest success, however, would be if my words resonated in someone else, and helped make a difference. That, unfortunately, is the one form of success that can never really be measured by any of us, but is the only one that really counts.
This was inspirational, thank you Joe (and Keith!). I think it mirrors what I have begun to think recently. It actually scares me to think of writing for a living, having to rely on my writing to keep my family fed and a roof over our heads, plus I don;t like the idea of HAVING to write – I like to write because I enjoy it and not because it is an obligation. Lots to think about, thank you!
@katehewson:disqus I’m with you, not to be “required” to write is so freeing. I really enjoyed the heart-filled interview as well.
I am definitely aiming for a nice garden, rather than a farm! However, if I managed to sell a few crops, I would love it because it would allow me to do less of the obligation and more of the artistic. I’ve been balancing the day job and my creative life for a long time. It’s one of the reasons I chose to pursue massage for the day job. It usually leaves me enough free time to write.
I wouldn’t like to have to rely on writing for a living because then I’d have deadlines and have to hurry. I would like to be read though. I would really really like that.
Success is the influence my words have with others. To hear “I haven’t thought about it that way before,” or “Your book/article/etc. helped my family’s life improve,” and even “I passed your work along to a friend” mean so much.
Success for me is doing what I love and being able to provide a good life for my family. I don’t think too many people actually achieve this state. I have been very fortunate and have had a reasonably successful career to date but I do not truly love what I do. I am not looking for fame or fortune but the ability to sustain my loved ones by doing something that I love.
I like his definition of success. I also feel a measure of success when people enjoy my stories. I have the goal to become a full time writer, but I don’t view it as a destination. I won’t have “arrived” once that’s happened. Instead, it’s a journey and if I’m enjoying myself, I’m successful at that moment.
Be successful at the moment, I love that!
I agree with Melissa. That’s a great way to look at it.
This was a great interview! Thank you for sharing. It was really thought provoking. Success … I’m going to have to agree with Stacy, it isn’t a destination. LIfe is so full of small and big successes and small and big failures. We are succeeding just by sharing our stories with others. And just like Mirelba said “there are many forms and stages of success.” To me success isn’t a specific picture or goal somewhere in the future, it’s every step we take forward towards the achievement of our goals.
Crafting work around life really hit home for me. That has been the cause of inner turmoil for me for years. So the OBLIGATION and PASSION will help give me some time for T E E (Remember terrified, empowered, excited?) Finding passion in an obligation fits to a tee. This winter has been a tough one at home. And I love the metaphors: garden is where I need to be, although I have ventured into the farm. This interview has given me a few good ideas and some definite direction. Thanks.
Nice, Myrna. I’d love to hear some of your ideas.
For me successful has two levels. It is not being full time, believe it or not, as in a full time income. I have other income. It is two-fold: one to recognize as a writer of decent talent, and the other is to give people something to think about and maybe evolve from that thinking. I know it sounds high-falutin’ but that really is how I feel. I do have stories and poems jumping around in my head and if I can get them somehow to make sense on paper, I feel successful.
First of all success for me is writing something and completely finishing it. (editing it, rewriting, and revising it) Finishing it so I can get it out to others. And secondly I really love it when my stories touch readers and bring out emotions.
I really liked Keith’s gardening analogy. To me, being successful as a writer is when we write something that impacts the lives of others in a positive way.
Me too, Joan.
After hearing this interview, I think finding that harmony would be the ultimate success for me. I’ve spent so long wondering how I can balance my corporate-America job and the creative side of myself. I think the root-and-harmony concept made sense to me more than most other advice I’ve received in my life.
Wow. That’s awesome, Jing.
Success for me looks obtainable, just a need to be focused and motivated. I had never thought the writing part in the way he explained by gardening and farming, but it does make sense. I have found in gardening you definitely have to stay with it or it gets away from you real fast and writing can do that as well. A routine and practice is the way to be. And of course enjoy it.
Good point, Julia. I’m a terrible gardner, and that would explain why. I have a hard time staying with things, and I used to have to fight everything in me to stick with writing. Now that the routine is built it’s much easier though.
I definitely have to be in a routine. 🙂 Creature of habit is me.
Success for me is being able to do my work without the constraints of an “industrial” schedule. I love the gardening analogy and would consider my personal success to be a floating point between the garden the farm.
I need the garden to let my creativity run wild and the farm to take some of the better points of creativity and share them to a wider audience.
Success for me means that I’ve completed a piece of writing. That’s always been difficult for me. I also feel successful when I’ve written something that I’m proud of and other people find it is valuable to them. I recently sold a couple of articles (for a nominal amount) and I felt I had succeeded as a writer.
Congratulations, Debbie! That’s huge. It starts with a few articles and then turns into more and more.
I’m undecided on this at the moment.
I really like the “gardener” metaphor, versus being a “farmer” or “factory worker” – that makes total sense in the writing realm.
Agreed. I loved that.
Success for me is living out a sense of purpose and building my contribution in life upon that purpose and my core values. I also believe in steady movement towards a future goal, a commitment to action and continual improvement. As a person of faith, I also see success as rooted in the spiritual beliefs that anchor me as well.
Writing a story, editing a story, submitting a story, publishing a story, passing on what I learn to other writers. Repeat. That’s success to me.
Success for me would be to create on a regular basis, keeping the disciplines in place and being purposeful in my intent to move forward creatively.
Success is hitting the publish button. Writing, editing and putting it out in the world.
I am a gardener.
I pray that someone will be touched by reading a story, hearts mended, wounds healed, dreams fulfilled.
Success for me means that I am writing, publishing enough that I don’t have to do stuff I don’t want to do to just pay the bills. I want the freedom to write what I want to write! I guess tat makes me a farmer — a gardener who doesn’t want to leave the garden for a day job. 🙂
Enjoyed this interview. Keith defined areas that have been a struggle. Looking at life as harmony rather than trying to find balance strikes me as a healthier attitude. I appreciate his definition of success: The freedom to chose how I spend each day. That is the core meaning of success.
His analogy of what type of writers exist was a breath of fresh air. I am a gardener and not ready for farmer or factory work! I am happy to be a gardener at this point.
After listening to the interview, I think success for me is being able to integrate my writing with my daily life so that writing is not another “task” but part of the natural flow of my day.
Great interview, loved the story about the brushing tangles out of the hair and finding stories in the everyday. I love the concept of impactful art. I love the idea of the writer – writing even when not pounding the keys, being out in the world to find the work that will make an impact. Success for me is writing pieces that really move and inspire people to reflect on a social or spiritual issue. I like deep impact writing, and finding ways to do that through stories in stories, images, photos, songs, blogs, interviews.
Loved this conversation. I subscribe to Root Notes as well and it is just neat to hear Keith Jennings speak in real time having read his thoughts on the page for several months now. I specifically like his ideas on being full time, that we can (should) shift our perspective and let writing be our root note rather than needing the corporate idea of work hours and success define our creative lives. Same goes with gardening, farming, factory analogy. I think of gardener/factories like the Coen brothers or Hitchcock, three of my favorite story tellers.
I believe success consists in finding ways of making myself, and the world around me, a better place through the wonders of the past and the future
This was a very interesting interview. I went to subscribe to Root Notes. I like the concept of having one root note and then having your life and other obligations revolve around it / feed it. For me, success in regards to writing comes with completing a story I’m proud of. Even if it doesn’t get out into the world, though that’d be nice.
Love the idea of “terrified and excited”.
Ditto with the concept of the root note in a musical chord as the foundation for harmony.
Pondering the discussed tension between “passion” and “obligation”. Are they mutually inclusive or exclusive?
“Success is the freedom to choose how I spend my time”….an interesting quote which resonates with my head and heart.
The “gardener, farmer, factory” analogy, with regards to art and creativity….oh this had me jumping up and down. I finally see the distinction I’ve always felt but could not verbalize.
I’m certainly puttering in my garden right now…but I have my eye on setting up a factory. Ultimately I want my success to look like an elegantly structured factory.
I agree with all the points you’ve made. They’re the ones that stood out for me as well. This is such a powerful interview. It makes me want to know more about Keith Jennings’ writing. I will check out “Root Notes” for sure.
Keith has the best laugh. I smiled every time he started a reply with a laugh.
Success, for me, will be learning to take writing more seriously. I do, to a point, but I get overwhelmed by the sheer hugeness of what I’m doing. That’s when I start distracting myself and diminishing my productivity in all areas of life, not just writing. When I can focus on what needs to be done to move forward, then I know I’ve made a change for the better.
If having the freedom to chose what I do each day is a measure of success, then I am woefully unsuccessful. That’s one of the things that has brought me here. I don’t like being a slave to the expedient, or the ‘proper’ way of doing things. I resonated with Keith’s garden; farm; factory imagery. I’m currently a gardener trying to become a farmer. Thanx for sharing this interview.
Success for me is more and more people enjoying my novel. And getting further novels written and published. And for each novel to be better than the previous.
Loved the laugh, too!
Success is…telling the stories only I can tell, to the folks whose lives will be brightened by hearing them.
Success is touching people’s lives. Success is getting a book published. Success is making my mark.
Success is believing you have contributed something worthwhile that will help at least one other person in some way. As an author, I succeed when even one person tells me they received a blessing from my published inspirational book or enjoyed reading their children my children’s book, Willie Out West.
That “point” in the story where the reader and I connect? Where they say, “I’ve been there, too, but I just didn’t know what to call it!” That’s success for me.
To me, success simply looks like getting to write every day. The logistics tend to figure themselves out from there. But if I can wake up early everyday and write, then I think I am being successful.
Success is finishing my novel and satisfied it has turned out great!
Success is telling (writing, publishing on a regular ongoing basis) stories that people enjoy reading – find peace, freedom and relaxation in – stories that are heartwarming.
As I’ve aged the importance of developing character has taken over the desire to achieve. I look at my writing in the same vein. I’d like my writing to keep improving, both in the application of craft but more specifically in enhanced stories. How do I measure that? By readers being touched in some way. Doesn’t have to be many, just some.
I like to keep improving my writing and developing my characters. I’d like readers to keep on coming back to read my stories.
Especially liked the bit about the garden! It is so true and I am glad I listened as it reminds me of how far I have come with the garden. Doubts as a beginner and confidence now(though I wont be pursuing farming) Great interview.
Success to me is touching people with my words. I once had an 84 year old woman tell me what I said changed her mind. I felt successful that day.
To me, success is having the freedom to provide for my family using my creative gifts.
I’m definitely a gardener, flowers as well as veggies. Happily, I don’t need farm or factory output. What I do need is to use my opportunities to write, instead of frittering away my time. Time lost is gone forever.
My husband and I are both retired, and our kids are grown. We have time to travel and enjoy the world. It’s easy to lose focus and forget my priorities, to write and get that writing out for people to read.
I love Keith’s definition of success. I think I might borrow it. 😉 I also loved his idea of harmonizing your life instead of balancing your life. Good stuff!
My second answer…
Success is when a child puts down my book and goes to find a pencil to see if their pencil is magic, too. Or when another child scribbles down a page of story ideas for my next book. That’s touching someone and igniting their imagination, which, for me, is bigger than anything I could have hoped for.
I love the idea of success being the freedom to do what I want. This is really what I desire. My obligations are like everyone else, I need time and money. It would be a dream to create the art and be able to profit enough to repalce my imcome. I don’t have that much income to replace, really. I’m finding it now, that the more time I have the more my mind shifts to create, write and plan ideas. I’d be wonderful to be able to do this all of the time. That’s my success.
I was taught an old fashioned thing—to love my work. Then, when I didn’t, I changed jobs. I have been a gardener, a farmer and a factory worker. When I had to look forward to Friday on Monday, I knew something was wrong. I have often gone in a backwards sort of way, not by setting a goal but by noticing how I felt about things and adjusting the course. I love gardening-but with flowers and plants not for eating alone, but for looking, smelling, hearing the wind and the water, feeling the soil in my fingers. Everywhere I live, I arrange things. I think of it as art—my surroundings I mean. It is so fun to take what’s free and add in my personality. When I work a job, I laugh allot. I put maximum enjoyment into it. Really, I have loved almost all my jobs. With writing, I am again arranging words to produce a garden that expresses and pleases me and others. It is a passionate thing because, once again, I look backwards in order to go foreword, writing what I have experienced. I know when I am successful. It is not that I wait for someone to tell me. But I am an artist as well as a writer, and have learned to make something that feels right.
Now, I have been a counselor too. I am not sure I have something to teach so much as share, and I think, since nothing is by accident, the best thing I can do is show up and be me. Is that self esteem? Maybe. But, to me that is success.
I read all the replies—am so busy gardening outside in this gorgeous weather on the San Juan Islands that I am behind most of you. I agree with most everything said—and marveled at how eloquently it was said. I thought Keith was a philosopher and loved the way he used metaphors—like harmony—like gardening, farming, factories. I loved his laugh and that he writes poetry. I would like to be successful like he is, but in the meantime, if I put that red-maroon smoke tree next to the blue hosta, what will they look like together as they grow, and can I tell you how much I love the freedom to do that? That is success to me.
Oh, and I have to reply to myself. If I sound arrogant, I don’t mean to be that for the best thing for me is learning. If I learn something new or better, then I feel successful too. So, in this group, I appreciate them feedback to write better what I mean to say. Thanks.
What a great interview. Especially the part talking about how to fit writing in with other obligations. Being a stay at home mom, my family comes first. Writing is secondary. I have been blessed with the opportunity to focus on writing without having to work outside the home. But being on one income, there are many times I wish I could contribute to the family finances.
At first I thought being successful was being in print and on the bookshelves. But after listening to the interview and working on this course I have come to the conclusion that success is just the fact that I am doing what I love – being creative, raising a family and being a wife. And that is enough for me.
At this point, success will be figuring out “what is my overall purpose for writing.”
I think at this stage, I’m still try to figure this out. I’d love to ditch the corporate job I have and create everyday and have my creativity sustain me and my family. That would be success.
Then again, I’ve never been in the position where my sustenance was dependent on my creativity. What if I didn’t like it? How can I be sure?
Maybe for me success is the option to keep the corporate job and garden OR the option to farm / run the factory.
Defining success is such an important topic. I appreciated this interview because this issue of success was discussed. I think we get in such trouble when we use numbers as a way to measure our success. Did our book make it to the charts? How many people purchased our book? Then we are tempted to take out our measuring stick to determine if we are successful. And any kind of comparisons are really counterproductive.
I also appreciate Keith saying it is normal to feel scared and excited when we publish or submit something, It’s an indicator we have put our passion into it.
I really enjoyed this interview.
I liked the quote, “If you are equally terrified and excited then you know you are kind of working in your sweet spot in your creative life.” I find that I am most successful when I am in that area. I think this idea has a lot to do with success for me, causing me to keep going. Am I still moving forward? Learning? Creating? Trying new things? Excited about the life God has given me, and sharing it with others?
I love Keith’s metaphor about gardens, farms, and factories.
The garden/farm/factory perfect analogy , it worked for me. Thanks.
This is really helpful. I honestly think I need to listen to this more than once before I can give a full answer, but my initial thoughts are that this really relieves the burden of “writing success” as I’ve defined it in the past. This puts writing success in reach. It’s like the sun just rose.
I really appreciate this interview and all the insights I got from Keith and Joe. This is the first time I’m reconsidering this whole idea of work-life balance and writing full-time as the “ultimate goal” for every writer. I know I can never achieve that full-time status with all of my obligations, and that’s totally fine with me. As long as I get to spend time with my loved ones while being given the opportunity to write, whether it’s a blog post for a tech brand or poetry for my collection, I’m a happy campter.
I also love the gardener, farmer, and factory worker analogy. I see myself as a gardener with my creative work as a poet and a gardener-to-farmer for my other business and brand. With that said, my idea of success is overcoming all of my self-doubts, pursuing my passion everyday, and being able to impact the lives of people and environment through the work I intend to leave behind.
Made us feel easier about not putting too much pressure on ourselves. Success to us, would be being able to comfortably live in our house and put aside a couple of days a week (each) for writing. This would then be a weeks work for us. The rest of the time is family time, with a few hours overtime I’m sure.
I’m an aspiring gardener. My short-term goal is to schedule a little time each day to sow the seeds and pull the weeds.
I feel like I already have success. My perspective on success in writing is being able to say, I am a writer. I was blessed this year to publish my first book. That is success to me. I think we will have little successes and victories all along the journey of life. I consider myself a successful insurance agent because I have been able to make a living at it, on commission only. Now, I am praying for God to lead the way in my writing career as well. I would love to be able to be in full time ministry – whatever that looks like. I will learn to be content in the success that God gives me. Wherever He leads I will follow. I believe if we don’t put expectations on ourselves or others we won’t be disappointed.
I enjoyed listening to the interview.
It made me think – a lot!
I looked up ‘Success’ in a couple of dictionaries:
The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines it as, among other things, ‘the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.’
Merriam-Webster defines it as, among other things, ‘outcome result,’ and ‘degree or measure of succeeding.’
Interestingly, the OED’s definition includes some detail on the word’s origin: Latin, and a latin word: succedere. Apparently it means something like ‘come close after.’
It seems to me that ‘success’ generally seems to mean two things:
(1) Reaching an aimed-for objective.
(2) A journey, or progression, from a starting point, moving, step by step, towards a destination. Each step ‘succeeding’ the one before it.
As such, what success means to me is:
(1) Reaching my goals, and
(2) Completing sub-goals which bring me close to reaching my ultimate objectives.
(3) Making progress towards a desirable goal, state or condition *intentionally*.
So, what success looks like really depends on what goals one has.
I think my personal conception of success is closely related to
* Self-knowledge (Knowing what I want)
* Inventories of my skills and resources (Knowing what I have to work with)
* Goal setting (the targets to be aimed for)
* Prioritising and task management (the plans for their attainment)
* Reaching the goals
* Reviewing, and creating new goals, targets and plans as appropriate.
For me, success is the journey itself – towards where you aim to be.
Sometimes I find myself arriving at a place I planned to come to.
Sometimes, I find myself making plans to get to somewhere else.
‘Success’ is for me an ongoing *journey.*
It includes goal-making, planning, working, completion of tasks, review – and starting the whole process over again.
If I am reaching a goal, or getting nearer to completing a goal, I consider I am in a state of ‘success.’
Fascinating, Stuart. I love this.
I liked his questioning what the notion of full-time is? Especially relevant for me, because after all I am retired, and need to balance the goals of that with also establishing myself as a novelist.
Also like where he said where he’s writing at the edge of his comfort zone, as opposed to just phoning it in.
I guess I’m definitely a farm, wanting to be a factory 🙂